Thank a lot for sharing it :3

This has been an extremely obvious flaw in the modlog concept from the very start, and has been discussed on and off for years. IMO, it exposes a much wider issue with federated forums as currently implemented, despite the aggressive defense of some vague concept of “openness.”

I agree with your point but would nuance it. Some part are flawed but we also saw the good side of the modlog openess, let’s not forget thay.

Otherwise the community yptb wouldn’t exist, we wouldn’t able to juge our action, user wouldn’t be able to choose their own instance and that’s terrible.

We already have lot power : seeing vote, ban, delete…and for me, the modlog counter-balance our tools. So i hope we can find something in the middle ground. :)

On mod tools, i think we need to developp other tool than than ban and delete, they are very aggresive. I hope we will see new tools that will change the way we take action.

I didn’t know until until dbzer0 or unruffled told us about it.

However dunno if its ideas on property are still revalants today. For example i enjoyed a lot songs from Léo Ferré but a woman told me he was mysognist…and i was unterly baffled by his comment…but its song were powerful. Maybe there is good part ? Or everything is terrible ?

There are lot books to read, and it pile up. For now i focusing on book that study fascism. It. Maybe i should try audio book but that’s harder because i’m deaf. I’m kinda jealous of hearing people, they are lucky. TT.TT

You are not a bad citizen. Just follows yours fellings and needs. But also check how many admin take care of the server and the way they moderate and you will be good :)

I was one of the first to suggest this very idea that unruffled talk about. It was in threadiverse defence chat the 23 April :

Then, later i developped the idea on Piefed zulip chat.

i also agree with unruffled about this part :

But “some control over modlog visibility” is inevitably going to be abused to protect problematic mods and admins.

That was my experience from Reddit

And last point, i’m an anarchist. I don’t read Proudhon as Libb do but i worked in self-managed collective IRL several years ago. And learned lot things, suggested ideas, voted. I was part of the core organization with seven people. So i’m not sure where we are going.

We may disagree, but both side are right. And i wouldn’t minimize the impact of having your real name exposed on internet. Some activists may face trouble with the police, harrassement…

Yes, i will lock your post like the other posts. If you read the other posts i explain why, i can’t handle a heated debate. I need to protect myself. And here is part of my answer to your earlier question when we were playing cat & mouse :

Me: […] I also manage several communities beside this one and i’m doing it during my free time. So…

You: Yes the game of sharing info, which I now see is not allowed here.

Me: Why those three posts are here ? And the comments from mia ? dbzer0 ? Everyone exposed their point of view

So, thank for your comment. Let’s call a day.

I don’t see that way. It was very difficult for admins to remove doxxing info from the modlog.

@unruffled@anarchist.nexus wanted to remove doxxing info from an user.

Our admins, together, did their best to remove the doxing info from the modlog because it federate accross the fediverse.

Given how serious the issue was, most admins expressed the idea to have an option to remove it from the modlog.

So, it wasn’t only Rimu idea. Rimu is also a dev, so he decided to tackle on this issue.

The last one were Rimu was banned for zionism in a community. A false statement, He was so furious about this misinformation. Although admins from the FAF reverted the ban, the mod & modlog remained.

But, right now, what worry me the most isn’t thing as “rule 2” “zionism” “rude” “bot”…but a bot that spam content throught mod action.

Yes, defederating would partially solve it, but the spam would remain…

So how i see, yes the update was the direct result of this conflict between those two instances. But this conflict wasn’t the only reason, it also revealed some issues from the modlog.

Until now we used yptb, it was used to reveal mods & admins bad behaviour, Rimu benefited from it. However, we were lucky someone hasn’t exploited the modlog yet.

For me, it would be a mistake to ignore it. And yes, hidding modlog from most people also raise issue for me because that’s the keypart in self-managed organization and that a key part in limiting our power.

So i don’t know what would be the best solution. I purposed to piefed dev a “right to answer” in the modlog few week ago in our zulip chat and maybe matrix.

However, you don’t explain why. The extract you shared was the last part of Rimu’s comment :

But this is really a symptom of the modlog having massive fundamental design issues. For example the other day someone’s full name was in there and there was no way to remove it, across all instances, without some weird non-obvious workarounds.

This person asked us, admins to remove it. Imagine that was your full name and address. We delete it and it appears in the modlog.

We can face legal issues if we aren’t able to delete person real name.

It’s public, distributed across hundreds of servers, anyone can create a community and write to it, and it’s write-only. This has obvious abuse potential.

Yes it was related to the ban for zionism. However that’s just the tip of the iceberg…imagine a new spam bot, how will you handle it if it write in the modlog ?

I enjoy the modlog transparency. My mod action is transparent, everyone can see what we do. However there is some downside. Admins struggled to remove that person real name, that wasn’t an easy task.

So there is pro and cons about the modlog. Until now, it served its purpose and allowed users to defend themselve against mod & admin abuse. However we shouldn’t ignore the point above.

As for myself, i don’t know what is the correct answer.

• Create an option to remove your mod’s action from the modlog ? So when you delete comments with your full name, it won’t appear in the modlog ? Then anyone can hide their mod’s action from the modlog ?
• Hide the modlog and only showcase to thrusted people ?
• Create a “right to answer” ? A voting system ?

The solution isn’t simple. 😔

Edit: typo

Here is the full explanation :)

https://piefed.social/post/2048738#comment_11279843

No, i don’t have any ideas 😅

Very cool thank a lot, we are slowly making them better :)

Thank for sharing, i wondered how efficient it was. :)

I opened this issue for piefed month ago. I paused because there is lot things to do and the dev team is still small. :)

https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues/861

That’s my dream :3

I would recommand at least two accounts per fediverse type (type = microblog, threadiverse…)

So you can have a backup account in case your instance is down. Because currently there is no sync of our subcriptions, follows.

I hope we will have a kind of nomadic identity
to solve this.

Here is the idea for a sync app

@rimu@piefed.social @wjs018@piefed.social a good topic to developp :)

We can create one :)

I don’t care about “changing habits”. I just don’t want people that I care about being exploited and manipulated like that

If ya want people to stop using big tech, you have to change their habits. You can’t change it, they have built their network, found old friends…maybe one day but most of them aren’t attracted by the fediverse.

I want to have the equivalent of LinkedIn lunatics, and personal coaches and all that crap that one can find on Instagram/TikTok/Facebook.

How do you handle this part with the above one (exploited, manipulated) ? I don’t want them. I will leave or ask for defederation.

I enjoy this place as it is. It doesn’t need to be bigger. Once you remove it, i think plenty people will leave and create their own forum elsewhere as we did for Reddit.

You may not like how I expressed my opinion, but that doesn’t mean that I need to agree or comply.

Well that’s part of the problem and i’m just doing my job. I don’t expect you to change that quickly. It’s not my thought alone

When I talk about the shortcomings of the Fediverse and the lack of ambition of the developers, it’s because I’ve already got lots of people in here, but the overwhelming majority of them ended up going back to the proprietary platforms because there simply isn’t enough interests/interesting people. It tries so hard to reject mainstream and “normies” that it ends up feeling hostile to them. The majority of people are not interested in being lectured 24/7 by patronizing tweenies.

Well i had the same experience and i’m older than twenty year old. :)

My role isn’t to force them using free software or being part of the fediverse movement. I present software, show them how it works. I contact association, governement…explain them the problem, show newpapers, present solutions and it’s up to them to change their habits. We can’t change people habits except if governement decide to takes actions to protect our freedom and rights.

You don’t have to take it personally. They prefer big tech, so let them use big tech.

My goal is not to convince Rimu or any of the people working on PieFed to change their minds. I know they won’t. I’m not trying to win any argument here. I’m talking in a public forum, giving my opinion, so that others can have a contrasting point of view

My goal as a moderator/piefed staff is to make you understand that the way you shared your arguments/opinion is not okay. It’s not about telling the truth, the truth doesn’t have to be harsh, blunt…that’s a false belief. You can be nice and share your knownledge/opinion. And i gave you several options.

I want to make this place as useful and universal as the centralized platforms. But I find this line of reasoning quite strange, to be frank. Do you think that people should only be here if they are willing to conform to a certain set of values?

Well i’m part of the Kittens : https://chatons.org/ I meet people IRL and tell them about the fediverse, and show them how they work, i did 2 conferences on Piefed to newcomers last summer. I also did the wiki of Piefed.

I’m not only acting in the fediverse and the web but i’m also there IRL, where most of people use big tech. If you want to make this place useful and universal as centralized platforms, i think the best way to change people is telling them about the fediverse IRL, not here beside technical stuff or ui.

I had more people being brutally honestly and calling me out, to bring me back to reality. The worst thing is to when people say they want “feedback”, but are only willing to listen to those who validate or fake-support them.

That’s nit my point. If anyone were brutally honnest the world wouldn’t be better because you do hurt people. They will stop being in contact with you.

So what’s the point telling them all this ? You argument fell into a pit. S i gave you some tips to keep interaction with people and sharing your opinion and your technical knowledge without being harsh.

You don’t have to be harsh to tell the truth.

All of the “features” you are giving as “superior” are meaningless, if the Fediverse is only interesting/useful for 0.1% of the overall population. I don’t care about moral superiority. I will not consider the Fediverse “beyond” anything on any front until TikTok, Reddit, Instagram, Bluesky, et al are irrelevant as tools for mass communication.

So why are you here ? What’s the piint of being here if they are “superior”. I’m sorry, i disagree with you, it answered the need of bilkions people and i’m convaincing people IRL to migrate on these platform. They are happy to know that there is alternative to gafam.

And lastly, being able to see video from another service wasn’t possibke before. It’s the first time i see something like this thank to activitypub protocole. It’s amazing. So please stop.