I understand, but we must continue to try and pressure him, like the person interviewing him, to be more direct in his actions by pushing him to the left.

Politicians need to be pressured and forced, or they will continue their status quo ways even when a genocide is happening.

Yes, we always need to work on ourselves and never stop learning and fighting our own biases, especially when talking to people that don’t think like we do.

Thanks for those words and for the reminder!

I agree, but that must start by putting pressure and forcing our politicians, who represent the people, to do our bidding.

But dang, that is one way to jump to conclusions

Being critical of what politicians do, vote on, and support will affect how people see them; these are recorded and can be seen, so pressure must be added as quickly as possible from past experiences.

To be fair, I don’t expect the us government to come out of this case having done the right thing

Yes, and that is why we can’t be apologetics or celebrity worshipers to politicians; we have to force them and pressure them to do the right thing.

Sabby addresses the issues we have with Bernie Sanders when it comes to Mahmoud and the others being detained.

Timestamp: 05:52 - 11:58

There is a special classification for genocide in certain laws; it gives states the legal right to intervene and to stop them.

Sabby shows an interview of Bernie Sanders with someone walking him through the steps of why addressing what is happening to Palestine as a genocide is important.

Sabby also ties it to another time when he dismisses the question or tries to avoid it.

Ah, my intention is not to alienate but to inform and to show that we need to directly criticize these politicians when they are failing their constituents.

Failing to uphold the demands of the working class is what resulted in two Trump terms.

Trump is a symptom of the problems our country has; many more like him will appear if we don’t force our politicians to do the bidding of the working class.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. – Frederick Douglass

Thanks for explaining your point across in a simple and direct manner!

I see them as different groups, similar to how AOC used to talk about Biden.

AOC: ‘In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party’^[1]

We don’t have a leftist party in the US; we need a grassroots movement of the working class to create one.

I am not for, nor do I try to defend, the duopoly.

Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for trying to explain your point, which I seem to struggle to understand.

Liberals and leftists are not the same.

Liberals are what Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. warned us about.

The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man. Let me first explain what I mean by this White liberal. In America there’s no such thing as Democrats and Republicans anymore. That’s antiquated. In America you have liberals and conservatives. This is what the American political structure boils down to among Whites. The only people who are still living in the past and thinks in terms of “I’m a Democrat” or “I’m a Republican” is the American Negro. He’s the one who runs around bragging about party affiliation and he’s the one who sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican, but White people in America are divided into two groups, liberals and Republicans…or rather, liberals and conservatives. And when you find White people vote in the political picture, they’re not divided in terms of Democrats and Republicans, they’re divided consistently as conservatives and as liberal. The Democrats who are conservative vote with Republicans who are conservative. Democrats who are liberals vote with Republicans who are liberals. You find this in Washington, DC. Now the White liberals aren’t White people who are for independence, who are liberal, who are moral, who are ethical in their thinking, they are just a faction of White people who are jockeying for power the same as the White conservatives are a faction of White people who are jockeying for power. Now they are fighting each other for booty, for power, for prestige and the one who is the football in the game is the Negro. Twenty million Black people in this country are a political football, a political pawn an economic football, an economic pawn, a social football, a social pawn… – Malcolm X

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. – Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

Well, there is a difference between liberals and leftists.

Again, this is the difference between revolutionaries and reformists.

In the final verse, the liberal narrator of the song establishes he used to be a socialist, but has now “grown older and wiser”, and rejected more radical left-wing politics in favor of liberalism. Liberalism is a political disposition which is opposed to, and not synonymous with, Leftism (socialism, communism, etc). The idea that liberalism is synonymous with Leftism is a recent phenomenon more or less specific to mainstream US politics since the widespread suppression of the radical Left in the 70s and 80s (as well as the spread of the global “neoliberal consensus” since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the German Democratic Republic, and the capitalist reforms of China under Deng Xiaoping).^[1]

It seems to me that you are the one trying to preach to the choir.

I did not use “real leftists”; you did.

Teaching and informing people is required so as to be revolutionaries instead of reformists.

I’ll go focus on actionable things, and support leftists that take action.

A quick search into what Sabby Sabs and I advocate (and try to inform people of doing) would absolve you of that notion.

On my user profile:

Mantra: “We should focus our actions, time, and resources on Direct Action, Mutual Aid, and Community Outreach… No War but Class War!”

Sabby has a Mutual Aid chapter in Boston.^[1].

Fake leftist

I think you are confused.

We are to the left of Bernie; you are to his right.

purity test

“People that volunteered and helped him in 2016 and 2020 have sadly learned the extent of his ‘radical’ policies and how far he is willing to fight.”

We have experiences about how far he is willing to fight the status quo and to truly address working-class struggles; the video points this out in a simple-to-understand manner with receipts.

Again, if you understand this, you would know that we are to the left of Bernie Sanders; it is not that hard to figure out.

Again:

P.S. Being an apologist and celebrity-worshipping does not help push the causes of the working class; it only hinders them and helps keep the status quo.

You reminded me of this song:

[Song] Phil Ochs - Love Me I’m A Liberal [04:39 | Country, Satire, Politics, Folk | https://youtu.be/0nFvhhCulaw]^[1]

“Love Me, I’m A Liberal,” is a criticism of liberals, as liberals often superficially support things such as civil rights to appear compassionate, but actually reject any action that would upset the status quo. This song is Phil Ochs’ demonstration of his hatred of the liberals, who he views as hypocritical.

In the final verse, the liberal narrator of the song establishes he used to be a socialist, but has now “grown older and wiser”, and rejected more radical left-wing politics in favor of liberalism. Liberalism is a political disposition which is opposed to, and not synonymous with, Leftism (socialism, communism, etc). The idea that liberalism is synonymous with Leftism is a recent phenomenon more or less specific to mainstream US politics since the widespread suppression of the radical Left in the 70s and 80s (as well as the spread of the global “neoliberal consensus” since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the German Democratic Republic, and the capitalist reforms of China under Deng Xiaoping).

Essentially, the song is a critique of liberalism from a leftist perspective, using the satirized view point of a 60’s American liberal.

Jello Biafra and Mojo Nixon did a 90’s-themed updated version that can be found here.

It’s also worth noting that the tune of this song incorporates parts of the melody for the traditional song ‘Rosin the Bow.’ You can hear it very clearly in the first three lines of every verse.^[2]

People that volunteered and helped him in 2016 and 2020 have sadly learned the extent of his “radical” policies and how far he is willing to fight.

Your point of view is understandable if you are to the right of Bernie Sanders. I and Sabby are criticizing him from his left.

I hope this helps you understand the major differences in worldviews.

FYI: Always be critical of people with power and influence, especially politicians and governments, since bribery (lobbying) is legal and most are bought and paid for by the owner class (the oligarchy and corporations).

P.S. Being an apologist and celebrity-worshipping does not help push the causes of the working class; it only hinders them and helps keep the status quo.

Edit: improved wording, legalized bribery -> bribery (lobbying), celebrity worshipping -> celebrity-worshipping

Not using a specific word is irrelevant

It seems we will not agree on this issue.

Being direct and truthfully calling what is happening in Palestine is a major deal for those that know and have seen the videos coming out of Palestine and the IDF.

Again, Sabby explains this in simple-to-understand points while addressing the reasons for her views and continued criticisms of Bernie on these specific issues.

Spoiler: Bernie is again and again and again just pushing people back to the status quo of the duopoly, which Sabby addresses at the end of the video.

It seems to me that you may be confused in your guessing on what the video is about and Sabby’s political stance on “Trump policies.”

It is understandable in your confusion; it seems many in this community don’t see criticism of Bernie from the left and just expect and blindly assume it comes from the right of Bernie.

You may encounter more views like these if you explore viewpoints from independent journalists and independent commentators that are to the left of Bernie.

You will see a pattern if you take the time to learn about these criticisms these people have; spoiler: they supported Bernie and volunteered for him in 2016 and 2020.

Some came to certain conclusions on Benrie’s willingness to truly fight the status quo and the duopoly once he continued to push people towards the Blue No Matter Who party again and again and again.

Thanks for the reply and for linking (not the issue being brought up, link is offtopic), but the major issue we have with Bernie is his cowardice in not calling what is happening in Palestine a genocide.

It’s a complete garbage video at the surface level. No strong stances?

The video addresses this and states it in a simple manner.

All issues with Bernie are addressed in calling him out specifically with a record of where he continues to fail the working class.

Again, this is criticism from the left of Bernie, not the right, so it is understandable why there is confusion.

Wow, you surprised me by replying!

I don’t know if the criticism is accurate, and I don’t care.

Ah, now it makes sense why you have no retorts with substance for what Sabby points out: the major issues with Bernie on Mamud Khalil, his continued support for the oligarchy, the duopoly, and the Palestine genocide.

It is expected, though, when you criticize Bernie from the left.

Smearing is the go-to for those on the right of Bernie.

All is well, peace!

Yes, but he stops short on certain major issues.

Sabby expands on these issues really well, with receipts.

We just have to be willing to learn from those that don’t align with our way of thinking.

Edit: improved wording, sentence structure, spacing for easier reading

That being said, I’m not even going to bother watching a second of this trash.

Sadly, that does not surprise me from someone that uses “Russian op” as a desperate final retort to disagree with people that don’t think like you want them to.

Sabby Sabs has a proven record of being a true leftist, a person for the working class, and vital to her community (with a mutual aid organization).^[1]

Criticism is healthy, but I suggest going a bit further when you encounter posts that don’t align with your way of thinking.

Interesting.

Thanks for clarifying and going further into explaining your views to us!

Some people can be seen as being a dreamer[1], I see myself as such a person, I try to stay hopeful, I see it as a much more positive way of living in the world; as well as much healthier for our mental health

Lemmy as a niche platform not one that appeals the masses

Yes, Lemmy is currently a niche platform, but that is how many start off, it takes time and much effort to grow a community.

It is similar to grassroots movements, where people that are leaders or learn to become one are willing to speak with anyone for a cause they feel strongly about, and they start to grow slowly.

I see lemmy in that phase or light, where most activity will be from people that are willing to throw themselves out there and share their favorite hobbies and put in the energy to interact with strangers (whether it may be apositive or negative interaction is another thing).

It takes time for people to come out of their shells and to start being active on forums as well, hopefully in Lemmy we give people that opportunity to grow as people and to take chances to meet and discuss any topic with strangers.

A few dedicated people can’t foster a genuine community out of sheer enthusiasm.

Well, it takes a few to start something new, in my eyes all important causes and projects start with a few people just having fun or putting the time to create something new.

To accomplish anything in life, it will take time and a lot of energy and people willing to do that.

I just don’t personally see that happening.

It is okay to see the world in that way, but just putting a bit of effort into sharing or creating a community that you like, will help improve the community.

Activity would increase, if you create a community or decide to share more of your hobbies and opinions within those communities.

If the communities would be liked by Lemmurs or not, it is another matter, but in the end of the day we all have our own way of seeing the world and we can have discussions with people that are willing to share their views as well.

The only way we can continue to grow as people, is by forcing ourselves to push against our own bias and to keep talking with people that do not think or agree with what we have to say.

[1] Supertramp - Dreamer [03:31] https://youtu.be/B885n08hOmw

Much text to read, here is a Lemmur for a fun pic:

Change is not easy, it takes time and people willing to help foster that new change.

I am one of those people that is really into politics, but I try to interact with other communities once in a while!

It is an election year, so politics is always in an all time high on any forums and social media.

I suggest, if you are willing, to step up your game and be really active in the communites you would like to see flourish.

It may be lonely, but it tends to be when starting new things!

We are all trying the best we can, when we can, I give props to the lemmyverse and fediverse for all they do!

Thanks for posting, even if you used a burner account!