I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know. It’s the same reasoning why we don’t give kids right to vote
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Edit 2: I don’t have time to respond to actual answers, I try later. But just a reminder: The only thing I said is, that I support trans people, just in case of kids I’m not sure. That is all. And I got -28 at the moment and people calling me moron
since nobody has given an explanation yet I’ll try to, however I am horrible with getting my words out and someone else can give a way better explanation than me.
Most trans people will either have signs or know that they are trans before they are 18. I myself knew that something was off about me as early as 3rd grade, I saw a tomboy and told my parents I wanted to be a ‘tomgirl’.
By the time puberty hits is when irreversible changes happen to the body. This is also when most trans people really get the “oh shit this ain’t right” moment.
Imagine being trapped in a body that is doing its very best to rip your soul apart from you, then learning that there are medications that can stop it, but then learning that people who aren’t even experiencing what you are have made the choice for you to not let you access them.
Now imagine that, for 5+ years.
Not 5+ years. Experience it beginning for 5+ years, then for the rest of your life because puberty has no undo button on many changes. I will never understand assholes who want to take away puberty blockers from kids who need them to have more time to decide on the life they want to live. That is no one’s god damn business but their own, under 18 or not.
not that big of an issue, conservatives like to play up the numbers WAAYYYY more than it actually is. Nobody is pressured into being trans, infact it’s the opposite.
Normal cosmetic surgery has a regret rate of 30% while trans surgeries have a 5% regret rate.
Just about any medical procedure will sometimes produce regrets in some portion of the population of people who undergo it, for instance vaccinations, amniocentesis, etc. It’s not reasonable to suggest that because this is true that no one should have access to the treatments.
Right. Like getting fake breasts or cheek implants.
The difference between those and vaccinations is that they’re superficial and aren’t necessary to prolong our lives. They’re optional, just like hormone treatment. They’re also procedures we don’t encourage or allow children to get on their own without a medical need, and rightfully so.
While some people will “regret” getting a kidney transplant, the alternative would’ve been death. I’m not going to argue whether or not they made the right choice, but the facts are there.
While some people will regret hormone treatment, the alternative is living with their normal healthy body like everyone else. They never “needed” the procedure in the first place.
What contact in your personal or professional life have you had with trans folk? Are you speaking with experience of appreciating their pain or are you just speaking based on what you’ve heard?
Practically nonexistant, it is not possible for children under 16 to access HRT, if anything they are prescribed puberty blockers (so that you know… they can avoid suffering from the changes in their body and not be permanently affected).
The general figure of regret for transgender affirming care is 1%, and 82.5% of these people do not detransition because they are no longer trans, but because of external factors.
Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33794108/
It fucking does not and does everything in its power to stop kids from transitioning. No kid can just show up somewhere and be given hormones. No one is profiting off of selling hormones. They are dirt cheap. You’re clearly getting your talking points from right wing media, maybe go listen to what actual trans kids have to say about their experiences and kindly shut the fuck up
Cool. One person talks about a trans agenda in this thread, another person is making up silly medical conspiracies to dehumanize trans people as if they had no agency.
Teenagers don’t even go to doctors by themselves. They have to be accompanied by a parent.
Thank you. Really thank you, this is beautiful. I didn’t even have time to go through responses of people actually explaining to me what’s the matter instead of downvoting. Bit you come in and call me a moron, fantastic, this helps everyone
Puberty blockers have been used for decades with no ill effect. It literally just delays puberty, which is irreversible once a person starts to go through it. It’s much safer to delay puberty in children who identify as trans, allow their brains to develop, and have them get treatment so that their mental health is kept healthy.
Personally, I think listening to the trans community on this and having them give advice on how to manage trans kids is better than leaving it to general society who won’t understand the emotional trauma involved. There’s a reason why suicide rates are high with trans kids.
I would associate it moreso with children trying to tell adults about the priest who keeps touching them but end up being dismissed because they’re kids. We ignore our children’s voices to our own detriment.
And listening to doctors on this. Apparently the vast majority of pediatricians recommending puberty blockers for trans kids since it prevents suicide doesn’t matter.
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
“Ya know I stood for things like labor rights, marriage equality, women’s rights, and then I was told to respect people and stand up for their civil liberties and then I became more and more right wing, and abandoned all previous morals and ethics because someone said something mean to me online a few too many times.”
If I changed my mind on shit because someone was rude I’d never have a firm opinion on anything.
“People are being hurt and we need to do something.”
“I don’t wanna, inconveniences me.”
“Then you’re not helpful, you’re at best not helping victims, at worst aiding in prolonging their pain.”
“Now you’ve lost me as an ally!”
Go bother someone else you can grift into thinking “the left got too crazy for me, so i left the left” as you claim you got cancelled and blacklisted as you make hundreds of thousands on right wing media.
On these very forums, we’re not allowed to say we think trans women aren’t the same as actual women.
There’s no shame in mentioning this fact. I’m also not a right-winger. Good job proving my point that we’re either with you or against you and you’re trying to control what people think through censorship.
If we have rules against saying things like that which hurt some community members I think it’s okay for mods to remove them. If people want to say that sort of thing they can create their own instances and/or communities which those people negatively affected can avoid there would be nobody to remove them. That’s one of the beauties of Lemmy.
Also if somebody is really of that opinion then maybe they should rethink their definition of “actual women”.
I agree with you on trans people but kids? I don’t know. It’s the same reasoning why we don’t give kids right to vote
Edit: I fail to understand why this gets downvoted …
Edit 2: I don’t have time to respond to actual answers, I try later. But just a reminder: The only thing I said is, that I support trans people, just in case of kids I’m not sure. That is all. And I got -28 at the moment and people calling me moron
since nobody has given an explanation yet I’ll try to, however I am horrible with getting my words out and someone else can give a way better explanation than me.
Most trans people will either have signs or know that they are trans before they are 18. I myself knew that something was off about me as early as 3rd grade, I saw a tomboy and told my parents I wanted to be a ‘tomgirl’.
By the time puberty hits is when irreversible changes happen to the body. This is also when most trans people really get the “oh shit this ain’t right” moment.
Imagine being trapped in a body that is doing its very best to rip your soul apart from you, then learning that there are medications that can stop it, but then learning that people who aren’t even experiencing what you are have made the choice for you to not let you access them.
Now imagine that, for 5+ years.
It’s torture.
Not 5+ years. Experience it beginning for 5+ years, then for the rest of your life because puberty has no undo button on many changes. I will never understand assholes who want to take away puberty blockers from kids who need them to have more time to decide on the life they want to live. That is no one’s god damn business but their own, under 18 or not.
I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
I agree, but that’s totally unrelated to the topic of trans rights. Whataboutism doesn’t make the issue go away.
Right. I’m purely putting my own agenda out there.
I wish we saw this kind of backlash against mutilating the genitals of infants.
Like circumcision right? Cause you know, and you certainly wouldn’t argue in bad faith about gender reassignment surgery happening to infants. Right?
What do you think of the kids that undergo hormone treatment and come to regret it later?
not that big of an issue, conservatives like to play up the numbers WAAYYYY more than it actually is. Nobody is pressured into being trans, infact it’s the opposite.
Normal cosmetic surgery has a regret rate of 30% while trans surgeries have a 5% regret rate.
Just about any medical procedure will sometimes produce regrets in some portion of the population of people who undergo it, for instance vaccinations, amniocentesis, etc. It’s not reasonable to suggest that because this is true that no one should have access to the treatments.
Right. Like getting fake breasts or cheek implants.
The difference between those and vaccinations is that they’re superficial and aren’t necessary to prolong our lives. They’re optional, just like hormone treatment. They’re also procedures we don’t encourage or allow children to get on their own without a medical need, and rightfully so.
While some people will “regret” getting a kidney transplant, the alternative would’ve been death. I’m not going to argue whether or not they made the right choice, but the facts are there.
While some people will regret hormone treatment, the alternative is living with their normal healthy body like everyone else. They never “needed” the procedure in the first place.
What contact in your personal or professional life have you had with trans folk? Are you speaking with experience of appreciating their pain or are you just speaking based on what you’ve heard?
Practically nonexistant, it is not possible for children under 16 to access HRT, if anything they are prescribed puberty blockers (so that you know… they can avoid suffering from the changes in their body and not be permanently affected).
The general figure of regret for transgender affirming care is 1%, and 82.5% of these people do not detransition because they are no longer trans, but because of external factors. Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33794108/
By age 17, 0.1% of trans children get HRT. Source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2828427
Now let’s calculate some numbers: 1% of these 0.1% will regret it, that’s 0.001%. And 17.5% of these might not be transgender, so that’s 0.000175%
According to that second study, there’s about 300000 trans children, so 0.000175% of that is 0.525 people.
So… less than 1 child in the whole United States would maybe regrets it because they’re not trans. In other words, you can stop fear mongering.
Because trans kids exist whether you approve of them or not.
Yes, but there’s also a medical industrial complex that pushes confused teenagers towards transitioning to make money.
It fucking does not and does everything in its power to stop kids from transitioning. No kid can just show up somewhere and be given hormones. No one is profiting off of selling hormones. They are dirt cheap. You’re clearly getting your talking points from right wing media, maybe go listen to what actual trans kids have to say about their experiences and kindly shut the fuck up
[citation needed]
Cool. One person talks about a trans agenda in this thread, another person is making up silly medical conspiracies to dehumanize trans people as if they had no agency.
Teenagers don’t even go to doctors by themselves. They have to be accompanied by a parent.
I find it interesting that an industry where lemmy users have sympathy for killing CEOs is blindly trusted with children.
There is a vast, vast gulf between blindly trusting the medical industry and accepting your personal conspiracy theory that doesn’t even make sense.
You are reading a bunch of preconceived nonsense into this. And one wonders why you need to.
Don’t worry, I support trans kids not being allowed to vote before the age of 18.
Eh 16 is fine in my opinion. But for cis kids too then.
No, only trans kids. Cis people have to wait until they’re 18.
EDIT: do I really have to? Fine, /s.
Because you’re a moron who refuses to learn better.
Thank you. Really thank you, this is beautiful. I didn’t even have time to go through responses of people actually explaining to me what’s the matter instead of downvoting. Bit you come in and call me a moron, fantastic, this helps everyone
Try not being a moron with idiotic takes, that works for me and millions of others.
“The world is better with you in it and you’re worth fighting for!”
You: It isn’t and you’re not.
Also you: Why is this downvoted??
How the hell did you come to THIS conclusion? You’re now literally putting words in my mouth
How else is this response to that message supposed to be taken?
It’s different to voting though.
Puberty blockers have been used for decades with no ill effect. It literally just delays puberty, which is irreversible once a person starts to go through it. It’s much safer to delay puberty in children who identify as trans, allow their brains to develop, and have them get treatment so that their mental health is kept healthy.
Personally, I think listening to the trans community on this and having them give advice on how to manage trans kids is better than leaving it to general society who won’t understand the emotional trauma involved. There’s a reason why suicide rates are high with trans kids.
I would associate it moreso with children trying to tell adults about the priest who keeps touching them but end up being dismissed because they’re kids. We ignore our children’s voices to our own detriment.
And listening to doctors on this. Apparently the vast majority of pediatricians recommending puberty blockers for trans kids since it prevents suicide doesn’t matter.
Since when has “listening to doctors” been an American trait?
You’re either with them, or against them.
If you don’t give 110% support to the trans agenda, then they will immediately assume you’re Ron DeSantis.
Correct, you help people who are being attacked, or you do nothing when they are being attacked.
I rest my case.
This is what drives people further to the right. We’re not allowed to disagree with the trans agenda or have our own views on the matter.
You’re doing more harm than good when you try to control what people think.
“Ya know I stood for things like labor rights, marriage equality, women’s rights, and then I was told to respect people and stand up for their civil liberties and then I became more and more right wing, and abandoned all previous morals and ethics because someone said something mean to me online a few too many times.”
If I changed my mind on shit because someone was rude I’d never have a firm opinion on anything.
It’s not about being mean.
You literally will go out of your way to make sure people can’t share ideas that go against the trans agenda.
Like it or not, this will cause rational people to abandon your cause altogether because you’re trying to manipulate them into agreeing with you.
“People are being hurt and we need to do something.”
“I don’t wanna, inconveniences me.”
“Then you’re not helpful, you’re at best not helping victims, at worst aiding in prolonging their pain.”
“Now you’ve lost me as an ally!”
Go bother someone else you can grift into thinking “the left got too crazy for me, so i left the left” as you claim you got cancelled and blacklisted as you make hundreds of thousands on right wing media.
Existing is not an agenda.
Right. Trying to control what people think and censoring anyone who disagrees is an agenda, though.
There’s no shame in mentioning this fact. I’m also not a right-winger. Good job proving my point that we’re either with you or against you and you’re trying to control what people think through censorship.
If we have rules against saying things like that which hurt some community members I think it’s okay for mods to remove them. If people want to say that sort of thing they can create their own instances and/or communities which those people negatively affected can avoid there would be nobody to remove them. That’s one of the beauties of Lemmy.
Also if somebody is really of that opinion then maybe they should rethink their definition of “actual women”.
They don’t have a definition of “actual women,” because every one they can give has to come with massive “exception to the rule” issues.