So, as you probably all know, last Sunday was the international womens day. To celebrate some people organized a “no mens” party (everyone was welcome except men). So I got all dressed up (wore a very cozy wool pullover, a skirt and some leggings), did some makeup and went there, since I was helping out at the bar. Another thing I should is, that I am just 3 months into HRT and therefore am not anywhere near passing (especially since I am very tall and have quite a deep voice). Since we were two people at the bar and there werent that many people I quickly went to get some food. So I went to the next “restaurant”, ordered and sat down to wait. this place was focused on “takeaway food” and is therefore quite small. There was this one man, that sat there with a glass of beer in a hand and this motherfucker did not even try to hide, that he was staring at me. He literally turned his head whenever I moved. I guess it wasnt in a sexual way, but I guess he has never seen a “man” wear a skirt and leggings. He did not do anything else, but I was never so glad I could leave a place.
Honestly, sometimes if they might be dumb as shit and they don’t necessarily know they’re staring. Or that they shouldn’t be obviously staring.
The Venn diagram of hyper-masculine men and very stupid men approaches a circle.
Not that it helps, but it might explain why it doesn’t feel like an intentional intimidation tactic. They’re just plain dumb.
Full disclosure, in one instance, I have been that staring man, only out of specific curiosity and never out of hostility. There was an employee at Microcenter that transitioned, and I honestly couldn’t tell if it was the same employee I recognized from their pre-transition days. So I tried to subtly figure it out without verbally asking and still probably ended up making it uncomfortable.
oh, there’s a difference between that kind of peeking-to-see style staring, and the kind of staring we’re talking about.
Here are some examples of the staring we’re talking about:
1. I walk into a grocery store (this is early transition, so I look more or less like a man in a dress, or a man in a skirt with a blouse, etc.). On the opposite end of the store, there is a group of 20-something men who are all blonde with athletic haircuts, wearing sleeveless shirts showing off their muscular arms, and they’re talking to an older man. When I walk in, all of them start to turn and look at me. They continue to look at me as they talk and move about the store. I am still grocery shopping and minutes later they’re still just openly staring, not looking away when I look up at them. They don’t stop until they leave the store.
2. I am having dinner with three other women (I’m the only trans one, and I still look like a man in a dress). We’re sitting outside on a picnic bench, and there multiple rows of benches. Sitting diagonal to my right is a man maybe in his 50s with his family. Every time I look up, he’s looking at me. He doesn’t look away, even when I meet his eyes. This lasts over an hour, the sun sets and he’s still staring at me.
This is different from normal people staring at me or taking glances because I was visibly trans and they were curious, e.g. one time I was at a table in a restaurant the family next to us started to peek and look at me because at some point in the evening I outed myself and ended up on their radar, but the family sorta had their initial look and curiosity fulfilled, and then went back to their evening. This is a different kind of staring than what OP and I are describing, which is more like the intense / unwavering stare that some (in my experience usually only older, or hyper-masculine) men will do.
Anyway, don’t worry too much about the worker you took a glance at, it’s very unlikely you were perceived as one of these aggressive men.
I really appreciate the explanation. I’m glad that is not what I did and disgusted, but not surprised in the least, that other men do that shit.
Hm, maybe - though I’m more inclined to think they just don’t have appropriate social shame (i.e. they’re socially “dumb” or less considerate). Maybe transgressing social norms by appearing as “a man in a dress” pushes them to feel like they have a moral license to violate social politeness norms by staring? I’ve noticed even transphobic women don’t tend to stare, which makes me wonder why - maybe women are just more polite / less likely to violate social norms?
I still can’t disambiguate the reason for the staring, though - it doesn’t feel like neutral curiosity, there is an intimidating or hostile component to the staring, but that never felt like a full or complete explanation. Something always felt weirdly sexual about it, but not that they were sexually interested, which makes it hard for me to pinpoint the vibe exactly.
I kind of get the feeling that they’re seeing us as sexual objects that the rules don’t apply to, so they might be able to do whatever they want to us without consequence. One of those things is violating social norms by staring excessively, so even if they’re not really interested sexually they might take advantage of what they see as free real estate. Idk it definitely feels like a precursor to a really bad time.