I think it’s very easy to claim ‘woke’ with modern star trek, but I think the issue is that politics used to be more tightly wound into the plot in that they used to express leftist viewpoints in a natural way that served the plot. The episodes were well thought out and were rich with allegory and metaphors.
Now the political views have remained largely the same from before, but the writing has suffered to an extent that things feel forced and no longer serve the plot in a natural way. It’s less thought provoking, and more “here’s the moral of the story”. Which for better or worse only really underscores Star Trek’s leftist views.
Bullshit. Modern star trek is fine I guess, but like, wasn’t the captain in ‘discovery’ ever so slightly faschy? There’s the ship that runs on doing mushrooms and an openly gay character. That’s like it. It’s not even the wokest star trek, what with the other one having the trans wormgirl and the sheriff who turns into a cloud for fun and the space-palestinian security officer and all the explicit antifascism while the semi-defecting fascist spy flirts with Dr. twink under the watchful eye of black space-jesus(n’awlins edition).
Compare it to actual woke fiction from the decade previous, three mediums:
Sense8(TV): the main character is just a trans woman, everything is a metaphor for ‘drugs are great, fuck the state’, and everything is queer. There’s a ‘detransition is murder’ arc. There’s a hive-mind-body-swapping orgy. Several, I think. Magical prison support is a major theme. Also prison breaks. Cops in your affinity group fucks everything up.
Pillars of eternity(video game): the druid is straight up an indigenous bisexual furry. If you’re too racist, he will seduce your wife, turn into a wolf, seduce your dog, and then steal your cart with all your beer on it on his way out. the paladin is transmasc-not-trans misotheist secret agent of kinda-revolutionary-kinda-dugallist france. he wizard is literally two spirit and a gay uptight British schoolboy/ancient appalachian party girl. The Americans worship the goddess of fire and conflict above all others and literally did the high fantasy Manhattan project to murder the god of forgiveness rebirth and being nice to each other when he popped into a dirt farmer and declared communism-jihad in canadappalachia. Everything is so Hegelian it hurts. There’s a joke ancap paladin subclass. The main plot is about the brutal violence of manifest destiny and its echoes through history, a stillbirth epidemic, and Americans all being howling fascists led by a shadow government of CIA telepaths. Doctor/scientists actually trying to solve the problem, who might even have a shot, are regularly lynched basically for being nerds.
I won’t even start on recent books, partially because I don’t look at publication dates for those, and partially because nobody else has ever read one. But let’s just say the nearest non-star-trek-branded equivalent to ‘star trek’ in literature (not a consideration in other media, went for 'within a decade) is the ‘culture’ series, which is falGsc(explicitly anarchist) where literally everyone is trans and drugs are a thing you get from your drug glands that grow in during puberty. Authority always turns out badly.
Yes, that was literally my point. I’m uncertain where the disagreement is?
TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions.
The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted.
So what I’m saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style.
I’m not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it’s all good.
Valid point, TOS wasn’t always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS.
So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point.
I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row.
And that’s kind of what I’m getting at, the writing for Discovery was lacking in a way that everything felt forced and rushed. The plot, pacing, the character relationships, etc. Why would we expect the politics to feel subtle when nothing else in that show was subtle?
I think it’s very easy to claim ‘woke’ with modern star trek, but I think the issue is that politics used to be more tightly wound into the plot in that they used to express leftist viewpoints in a natural way that served the plot. The episodes were well thought out and were rich with allegory and metaphors.
Now the political views have remained largely the same from before, but the writing has suffered to an extent that things feel forced and no longer serve the plot in a natural way. It’s less thought provoking, and more “here’s the moral of the story”. Which for better or worse only really underscores Star Trek’s leftist views.
Bullshit. Modern star trek is fine I guess, but like, wasn’t the captain in ‘discovery’ ever so slightly faschy? There’s the ship that runs on doing mushrooms and an openly gay character. That’s like it. It’s not even the wokest star trek, what with the other one having the trans wormgirl and the sheriff who turns into a cloud for fun and the space-palestinian security officer and all the explicit antifascism while the semi-defecting fascist spy flirts with Dr. twink under the watchful eye of black space-jesus(n’awlins edition).
Compare it to actual woke fiction from the decade previous, three mediums:
Sense8(TV): the main character is just a trans woman, everything is a metaphor for ‘drugs are great, fuck the state’, and everything is queer. There’s a ‘detransition is murder’ arc. There’s a hive-mind-body-swapping orgy. Several, I think. Magical prison support is a major theme. Also prison breaks. Cops in your affinity group fucks everything up.
Pillars of eternity(video game): the druid is straight up an indigenous bisexual furry. If you’re too racist, he will seduce your wife, turn into a wolf, seduce your dog, and then steal your cart with all your beer on it on his way out. the paladin is transmasc-not-trans misotheist secret agent of kinda-revolutionary-kinda-dugallist france. he wizard is literally two spirit and a gay uptight British schoolboy/ancient appalachian party girl. The Americans worship the goddess of fire and conflict above all others and literally did the high fantasy Manhattan project to murder the god of forgiveness rebirth and being nice to each other when he popped into a dirt farmer and declared communism-jihad in canadappalachia. Everything is so Hegelian it hurts. There’s a joke ancap paladin subclass. The main plot is about the brutal violence of manifest destiny and its echoes through history, a stillbirth epidemic, and Americans all being howling fascists led by a shadow government of CIA telepaths. Doctor/scientists actually trying to solve the problem, who might even have a shot, are regularly lynched basically for being nerds.
I won’t even start on recent books, partially because I don’t look at publication dates for those, and partially because nobody else has ever read one. But let’s just say the nearest non-star-trek-branded equivalent to ‘star trek’ in literature (not a consideration in other media, went for 'within a decade) is the ‘culture’ series, which is falGsc(explicitly anarchist) where literally everyone is trans and drugs are a thing you get from your drug glands that grow in during puberty. Authority always turns out badly.
You never watched TNG right ? It was literally either a philosophical lesson or a critic of society by episode …
Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully?
That’s a very valid comment 😂
Sometimes I skim for “what makes this jerk wrong” too. Welcome to the club.
Yes, that was literally my point. I’m uncertain where the disagreement is?
TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions.
The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted.
So what I’m saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style.
I’m not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it’s all good.
You’re acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”.
Valid point, TOS wasn’t always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS.
So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point.
I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row.
I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant.
Reread your post and I “may” have misunderstood you at first 😁
Discovery was generally written badly, so yeah, the message also suffered from that. If there even was one.
And that’s kind of what I’m getting at, the writing for Discovery was lacking in a way that everything felt forced and rushed. The plot, pacing, the character relationships, etc. Why would we expect the politics to feel subtle when nothing else in that show was subtle?
The last time a live action trek actually successfully pulled off morality and plot was when they ripped off Omelas