Failure to present a BritCard when required may result in denial of employment, housing, or access to certain services. Employers and landlords will be legally obligated to verify status through the system, and failure to do so may result in fines or penalties.
While enforcement details are still emerging, civil liberties groups warn that the scheme could disproportionately affect vulnerable populations. Those without smartphones, digital literacy, or stable housing may struggle to access or maintain their digital ID, potentially pushing them further into the margins of society.
What happens if your phone breaks? What happens when Google arbitrarily bans your account?
Straight to the Starmer gulags!
They’re better, because they were created by a neoliberal corporate-whore, instead of a fascist kleptocrat like Farage!
I mean. That’s true.
Still should toss this fuckwit to the lions tho.
Exactly the same thing as if your phone breaks now and you want to access any of the government’s online services. You have to buy a new one (or use a computer).
So England has adopted a Chinese style social credit system, eh?
Why digital ID? Can’t they just make a physical ID like every country?
it’s much easier to watch and control people with digital ID. Like your payroll, bank transfers, groceries, taxes etc.
Or just support both options. Why does it have to be on a phone?
Cheepnis
Because the year is 2025 and we have this thing called “the internet” now. Why would you want a physical ID?
because my phone can be dropped, lost or be outdated and unsupported.
Also, fuck you, there are clowns that can refuse the vaccine that saves peoples lives and ends a pandemic, but I HAVE TO have a fucking smartphone?
I think it should support desktop computers too, but yes it’s not really unreasonable in this day and age to expect working age people to have access to a smartphone or desktop. You need lots of other things to get a job anyway e.g. a bank account, postal address. Those are actually significantly worse requirements.
“Think of the OAPs” is why it took literally decades to get online NHS appointments.
“Think of the OAPs” is why it took literally decades to get online NHS appointments.
nothing stops offering it as an additional service without forcing OAPs to do any of that.
Yeah you’d think, but that was always the reason that was given.
Why would you want a physical ID?
Because the year is 2025 and we have this thing called “the internet” now, where the teeniest, tiniest little failure in implementation, could result in an entire database of PII leaked to the masses. It’s hard to leak a physical card.
Wait you want a physical card with no record of it? Like a deed from the 1800s or something? What?
The government already has plenty of databases with the PII of every person in the UK. This wouldn’t change that.
The difference is scope and ease of (inevitable) creep.
In isolation, this probably isn’t that big a change, as part of a trend though, this is the change that all of what is to come, hinges on.
This is a central point of identity that is now mandatory for a jobs and housing ( + a bunch of other stuff ).
Yes you need some things for a bank account and tax purposes, this isn’t different in type, it’s different in scope.
Now, given the propensity for “think of the children” wrapping for basically any privacy encroachment they can think up , they can tie it to this, because it’s digital it’s significantly easier to do that.
Previously they’d have had to think “how can we enforce this bullshit” and would have to factor in the cost of additional verification systems to support their bullshit.
Now they don’t.
You already need some kind of proof of identity to work and housing. This just designates one identifier as the one you have to use. Hardly different.
Yes, as i said, different in scope not type.
Well that just seems silly. You’re ok with an inconvenient ad-hoc collection of mandatory IDs, but not a unified one.
Why no physical backup?
I like the way US states that are (slowly) rolling out digital IDs.
First, the physical id is not being replaced.
Second, the digital ids only work in small subsets Until it’s rolled out to more areas.
For example, Californias only allows usage for proving you are over 21 (the app shows a Boolean flag to the person checking your id so it’s actually MORE private) or at select airports for domestic flights.
I am of the opinion that we CAN have a digital ID with some simple privacy items in place and ALWAY allowing a physical backup or opt out.
All of this “think of the children” digital surveillance could be partially mitigated by allowing OIDC like (stripping out unneeded information) that allows anyone to integrate an age check, Id verification, etc without much information being sent to the other apps.
Of course, this doesn’t solve the government knowing your business, but if physical backups were mandated it would help.
I think these age gates are short sighted and don’t do a lot to solve the issues, as it pushed people “underground”, just like prohibition in the states, and causes more issues.
Edit: just occurred to me, we could use a physical hardware key (like a passkey) to prove your age cryptographically without involving government apis.
You plug the fob into your phone, computer, etc. push the button and you are good…
Can any Brits explain to an American why your country hates privacy? It sounds dystopian over there in the UK.
Can any Brits explain to an American why your country hates privacy?
that’s rich coming from the home of the PRISM and the XKeyscore.
Also, the source of Facebook
It’s funny that you say living here sounds like a distopia …
But whattabout all the terrible things someone else does…
Yeah, America has the leading edge on neo-fascism right now, don’t get competitive about it.
in America I can pay someone a handful of grain and gain access to every piece of data about them.
Well, let’s see. The UK wants mandatory ID because today you can walk in to an hospital and get $100,000 of free healthcare without even proving you are entitled to it. And you can maybe work without paying taxes. And you move freely and safely anywhere in the country.
In the US, if you do not have proof of citizenship on you at all times (and maybe even if you do), you may be snatched off the street, detained, and perhaps even sent to a foreign prison all without due process of any kind.
Wow, now that I say it out loud, you are right. The UK sounds like a hell-hole.
It’s not a contest.
Well. Not a good one.
Well, let’s see. The UK wants mandatory ID because today you can walk in to an hospital and get $100,000 of free healthcare without even proving you are entitled to it.
the healtcare does not cost that much in the UK, because we/they don’t have idiotic “insurance” companies driving up the prices to make one OTC pill that should cost 30cents cost 400 dollars.
On this they’re both outliers. Mandatory ID is pretty much the norm.
Living in a place with it… it’s fine. Helps with some things. Definitely not the weird sci-fi tyrannical dystopia Brits and Americans suggest. It mostly depends on what is built around it. It’s not like identification doesn’t exist for fundamental transactions in places without a single consolidated ID document.
And yes, ours has all the accoutrements, including a digital certificate and biometric data, just like your passport does.
Mandatory ID isn’t the problem. The problem is the digital and surveillance aspect.
You sure everybody else agrees with you on that?
Cause it doesn’t sound like it.
To be clear, I do think the UK’s proposal specifically is problematic in that it requires you to own a specific device to support it and that it’s targeting undocumented migrants specifically. That said, the UK has a contentious relationship with the concept of mandatory ID that goes beyond the practical implementation issues or the actual instances of overreach being proposed alongside it.
I mean, for one thing I have no idea why they couldn’t implement this as an ID card like everybody else does.
We already have plenty of disparate digital IDs they can use for that. This won’t change anything.
So, all the countries I’d actually want to live in, except Spain: non-compulsory.
So you’d live in Spain but not in Portugal, Germany, Belgium or Greece? That’s highly specific aspirational European life goals. What’s with that? You like it when the Ñs get curls but Çs make you queasy?
The Netherlands also has mandatory ID.
This map needs an explanation. Is grey just no data? Why the two shades of green? The numbers, what do they mean?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country
I get that Google sucks these days, but… you know, there are still ways.
I don’t see that picture in the linked article. A similar picture, but it doesn’t have the numbers and shades of green.
I know how to use search engines, by the way. But I also think that it’s the responsibility of the person sharing graphs/maps to provide context for those graphs to enable readers to understand the data without having to go and do their own research. There’s no guarantee anyone finds the original source or that the source even provides the necessary context, if the sharer just grabbed a picture from Google Images without regard for the source.
So no, I won’t even attempt to find context and happily push that burden back on the person who lazily shared a graph without explanation.
You see both a larger picture that provides the same, consistent info with additional data and an explanation of the information contained in the screenshot I shared above. Typically a second independent source is considered a good thing when fact checking, friend.
Buyt hey, since you’re so simultaneously concerned with sourcing every single instance of the same data and unwilling to do any work to find it yourself (which you aren’t, at this point you’re mostly being antagonistic), the source of the original image is this video, not Google Images.
And in case you’re too busy demanding other people do work for you for free to actually watch it, the numbers are the age gates for mandatory ID in those countries and are there because I just happened to land on that particular frame when screenshotting it. Because… yeah, I decided to only devote so much time into looking this up for you all. I do enough homework for people on the Internet as it is.
That video is what you could’ve linked in the first place. It clearly explains the whole situation, and the colors and numbers make sense in the context (they’re highlighted examples and not really exceptional cases). Don’t act like you’re doing any “work for free” when you yourself admit you’re lazily cropping other people’s work.
So let me get this straight, you’re arguing that you shouldn’t be repurposing other people’s images in conversations on Lemmy/Fedi?
Have you… seen the Internet?
Also, I pasted a screenshot to a piece of info instead of linking the fifteen minute video where it originated specifically to save people time. How hard can you Karen at someone giving you an accurate piece of info? You have now posted three separate times acting all mad about receiving accurate, increasingly detailed information. Am I allowed to go do my other tasks of the day now, boss? Or do you need me to look up any other factoids while you slap me with a riding crop?
I mean, I can fulfil a fact checking fetish in a pinch, unusual as that may be, but I do think we should get some safety words down at this point.
Which “your” are you referring to? If it’s þe US passport, a difference is þat many Americans don’t own a passport. You only need one to travel internationally. I’m not sure if þey’re even sufficient for domestic flying anymore, wiþ þe RealID push. But if you don’t fly, you don’t need eiþer. And if you don’t drive or want to drink in a bar, you don’t even need a driver’s license. In þe US, þe only þing you can’t live wiþout is a social security card, because þat’s needed to work, and many parents get þeir kids þeir SSC when þey’re still children. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if þere’s a not-insignificant population of adult citizens in þe US who have no ID at all beyond a birþ certificate, and probably a few who lack even þat.
We may have become a fascist police state, but deeply rural America is still a vast area wiþ a significant population.
Thorn isn’t going to come back. Essentially everyone since the 1400s uses a digraph. Maybe it’s time you learned how.
And if you want to be stubborn, fine, then use yogh and edh too.
“Your” as in pretty much everybody’s. The vast majority of countries have biometric data in passports. And a majority have compulsory ID.
And frankly, I don’t particularly care about how weird people in the US are these days. I’m not sure I get what point you’re trying to make. Is the fact that you can redneck yourself all the way off the grid supposed to be a good thing in this scenario?
Also, what’s with all the thorn usage? Is your keyboard broken or have you been watching too many linguistics videos in Youtube and developed an affectation?
It’s not just rural US; many Americans don’t have a passport. Unlike Europe, we don’t use it as a primary form of ID, and we never have, so þis is not a recent þing. Passports are for international travel, and relatively few Americans live wiþin driving distance of an international border.
You can sneer all you like, but it’s an American phenomenon, not just þe USA. Only 70% of Canadians have a passport, and more þan US only because far more of þe population lives close to þe US border - most of Canada is wilderness. Around 56% of Mexicans hold a passport, 20% of Brazilians… and, hell, only 25% of Japanese have one.
My point is that much of the world don’t have passports. Maybe it seems oþerwise from your Euro-centric viewpoint, but surprise: most of þe population of þe world lives outside Europe.
Nobody in Europe uses a passport as a primary form of ID, what are you on about? Within the EU you don’t even need a passport to travel. Passport coverage rankings in Europe are between 40 and 80%, just like pretty much everywhere else. Are you under the impression that people in the EU just present their passport to identify themselves at the bank? Because… no, they don’t.
But most of Europe (and pretty much every other continent) does have some form of mandatory ID. And most ID, mandatory or not, now contains biometric identification, and that includes passports even in countries without mandatory ID, with only a few exceptions.
I’d be more contrarian about whatever point you’re trying to make, but there doesn’t seem to be one. Still super curious about how you grew a thorn key on your keyboard and how you came to think this was a cool thing to do online, speaking of erroneous impressions.
My point is that much of the world don’t have passports. Maybe it seems oþerwise from your Euro-centric viewpoint, but surprise: most of þe population of þe world lives outside Europe.
Leaving this here for posterity, do with it as you will.
What, as in just in case he removes specifically that part? I mean, I wouldn’t wory, it’s the least wrong part of his previous post, although it’s still supremely weird that they’re so obsessed with passports.
Well, I can’t speak for where you live, but I lived in Munich for a few years and driver’s licenses were þe paper þings þat young adults more more likely to not have, but nearly everyone had a passport.
I have not lived in Germany, and never thought to ask any of the Germans I know about this because it’s a rather dumb argument that isn’t that important, but this is what Wikipedia has to say about their ID card status:
A German identity card is compulsory to possess but not carry for all German citizens aged 16 or older; a passport can also be used in lieu of an identity card.
While police officers and some other officials have a right to demand to see one of those documents, the law does not state that one is obliged to submit the document immediately. Fines may only be applied if an identity card or passport is not possessed at all, if the document is expired or if one explicitly refuses to show ID to the police. If one is unable to produce an ID card or passport (or any other form of credible identification) during a police control, one can (in theory) be brought to the next police post and detained for a maximum of 12 hours, or until positive identification is possible. However, this measure is only applied if the police have reasonable grounds to believe the person detained has committed an offence.[127]
This gels with the rules in the handful of places where I’ve lived that have mandatory ID rules. With the important corollary that ID cards typically fit in your wallet and passports are big fat books you have to store separately.
Either way ID is ID.
ID was mandatory before for employment too. This is more a one ID to rule them all kind of thing.
Every time I start to forgive labour enough to vote for them next time to keep reform out they find a new reason to make me stay home.
What a fucking fail party.
Edit: I’m fine with mandatory ID for citizens, but with the UKs history of building digital services rolling this out to be digital first will almost certainly be a total disaster
So… The British Government are choosing to make Alex Jones right. Not a good idea.
Alex Jones is never right, not even when he’s right.
