I think Odo isn’t technically a fascist. He is an authoritarian, but he doesn’t seem particularly nationalist or racist. Compare him with the Cardassians or with the other changelings, and it’s pretty clear he’s quite different from them in some important ways.
You know, I guess you’re right. He did get his job by being particularly impartial. I think I probably don’t see a difference because the authority and certainty he employs are what fascists use in order to seize power. Guys like Odo tend to aid them without caring, and non-fascist subjects tend to permit fascism in the hopes that all authoritarians will act like Odo.
Sure but “Fascist Goo Man” is still funny as fuck
I thought he was simply autistic and his obsession is also his strong sense of justice (er one of his obsessions; the other is family). He treats everyone like a criminal, not jist groups he dislikes.
That is an interesting way of looking at it. If you think about it, it’s really weird that aliens from completely different planets would pick up on social clues from each other. And that would make all aliens seem autistic to each other.
So maybe Odo is the most accurate portrayal of an alien in the series.
I am autistic, and I am convinced that autistic people are just a group of people who have completely different instincts from the majority of others, but that we have instincts that are VERY MUCH in line with each other, and that we do, in fact, get social cues from each other.
But expecting autistic people to get social cues from neurotypical people is like expecting your cat to behave like a dog and then thinking it’s the cat who’s not making sense in this situation.
Really. Autistic people’s senses tend to be OFF THE CHARTS sensitive. And people think that WE are the ones missing social cues. No. We’re experiencing the environment in full 32-bit color with 7.1 audio, Smell-O-Vision, and the “Experience two senses at the same time while everyone else is only experiencing one” package thrown in. THAT is why we hate certain foods, because we’re coping with BOTH the texture AND the taste.
And when anyone asks us to imagine a situation where something is happening, we have to ask clarifying questions, because we just imagined three separate scenarios which fit the description.
When we interact with neurotypical people, we have entire simulations of each person in our head, not just the moments we’re interacting with the other person and the current situation, but literally seventeen different possible scenarios that might happen and every single aspect of everything we’ve ever been told about that person. We have our entire interaction with the person mapped out like a movie lasting from the beginning of time to the heat death of the universe. And we do this for literally every person we ever interact with.
And yet they make the accusation that we are the ones missing something and that we have no imaginations.
No, WE are using our imaginations literally non-stop every moment of our lives, from the moment we wake up to the moment we pass out from exhaustion.
Neurotypical people succeed in social interactions because their brains try to come up with the laziest explanation for why their understanding fits the known facts, and because they almost all do precisely the same small amount of work, they come to the same conclusions. They see a twitch in the eye or a slight delay in an action, and they go “Aha! That person must be being deceptive!” And meanwhile, the autistic person is constantly building new simulations and completely discarding the old ones and integrating all of the information that’s learned in order to be able to model the behavior of whomever they interact with. And as long as whomever they’re interacting with is not deceptive, it works incredibly well. Not just for other autistic people, but for animals, too. That’s why your autistic family member gets along with your pet that hates everyone else.
Neurotypical people are in fact, the odd man out when it comes to life on this planet.
And if humans EVER encounter aliens, you had BETTER hope that it’s autistic people doing the interacting, because autistic people have a full understanding that neurotypical people have NO ability to read what we’re thinking and so AUTOMATICALLY assume that we have negative intentions, and then resort to violence.
People often ask “Why were there so many different species of human on the planet but now there’s only one left?” And any autistic person can tell you: Neurotypical people are violent toward those who behave differently. Being identified as different gets you targeted, gets you attacked, gets you killed.
Odo doesn’t treat everyone like a criminal. He just builds profiles of their behavior in ways that they have trouble even understanding their own behavior, and he can identify potential risks exceptionally well.
Preach, brother/sister/non-binary sibling!
Authoritarian? He never aspired to power. He simply pursued justice. He talked about justice not law, but was fond of bending and breaking rules to serve a greater good. Likely not fascist or authoritarian.
Authoritarians don’t have to seek power. The core authoritarian concept is that the people in power should be obeyed, because they are the authority.
The people at the top think that they should have essentially dictatorial control, and the people below them think that all they have to do is follow the commands of those above them and then everyone below them should be obedient to them. And it continues like that all the way down the hierarchy.
And then the people at the bottom just want to keep their heads down and survive.
But for the most part, even true believers can be cajoled into acting differently. I do feel like Odo’s true personality is fairly authoritarian, but opinions may differ.
Odo does not obey the people in power if they don’t achieve justice.
He obeyed the Cardassian authorities on Terok Nor despite knowing how unjust their occupation of Bajor and their use of prisoner slaves was.
Because if he didn’t, there would be even less justice. But you are right, that was part of how he learned not to embrace order at ALL costs.
Isn‘t that the same reasoning of Gul Dukat? Like how he was so merciful and saved Bajor from much worse?
Well, there’s a bit of a difference between “Doing less murder than you could have done, in return for sexual favours” and “doing your best in a situation where you don’t have all the power”.
But you are right. Treating it like a numbers game lets you justify the evil status quo, and be afraid of rocking the boat. Odo demonstrated that he had grown beyond that in the time-travel episode where we saw all this get explored, and we saw the past he was so mortified about.
Order at any and all costs is pretty much authorianism.
Ever heard of entropy?
It affects sociology as well.
“Odo has no authoritarian tendencies”
Touché poussycat!
The vast majority of authoritarians are supporters of authoritarian systems, not really aspiring to be the leader / tyrant themselves.
Why do people call him a fascist? He isn’t a fascist and actually cares about the law. He’s never shown as having favourites or doing favours for people.
The only people he actually seems to have it out for is actual criminals.
His character is incredibly naive at first. But that makes sense given his early life.
Probably because of this: https://lemmy.world/comment/24011246
Mostly because he worked for fascists. I mentioned in another comment that they depend on people like him to rise to power. Sure, you could split hairs but I wanted to make a dumb joke is all
I’m torn between cause of shitting and pissing and crying because my fave char from DS9 is going to be one of
- a hateable cop
- a psycho spy
- a greedy capitalist
- … a “terrorist”
- a genetic mutant
- a bigot
- a cult leader
- a murderous “conservative”
- a mass murdering megalomaniac
- a power-hungry narcissist
- a mischief-maker turned jobsworth
- … or dax
… Oh, and there’s Jake[0], Rom, Leeta, Keiko, Molly, Opaka, Shakaar, Tora Ziyal, Cassidy[1], The Nagus, Martok, … and Morn.
Heh. When I started this post, I was just thinking of those first three, then remembered I kinda like Kira better than Odo, Garak, or Quark.
[0: Wouldnt be a fave. Except when considering S4E2, The Visitor, with old Jake.]
[1: Wouldn’t be a fave.]
There’s nothing wrong in being a genetic mutant. Also, she is a reformed terrorist.
I mean, it kinda is, because he isn’t a mutant in the sense that it is some quirk of nature. He is engineered, designed to be superhuman in many ways. He just lucked out and didnt get the space nietzsche genes. People still should not try to make Übermenschen, not in trek and not IRL either.
This is one area where I don’t really agree with the reasoning behind the Star Trek lore. The Prime Directive is another one.
With genetic engineering, they had one really bad experience, so they toss the baby out with the bath water. Realistically, they needed to make this rule, as well as the Prime Directive, because they thought it made for better storytelling. But the in-universe excuses don’t seem very valid to me.
You’re right, in a post-scarcity society we should let people’s genetic advantage be entirely random.
Your parents or grandparents had shit luck? Congrats you get to needlessly be worse than other people!
There is a difference between fixing genetic defects and disabilities and making people smarter better faster stronger than everyone else.
So make everybody smarter better faster stronger.
It’s post-scarcity, what reason is there not to improve the lives of everyone.
The same reason they have in the show, once you start with it everyone will eventually have to, or be treated to good old classism which was already gone in trek. Cant compete with 200iq people who can run 50kph and kick through a concrete pillar, if you excuse the hyperboly.
This might be why I like this show so much. These characters are problematic kings. This meme was almost about Quark for being the first sentient being who could befriend the asshole fascist goo man.
I met the 2nd Dax actor at a convention in 1999. She was big mad during the autograph signing, because her agent told her she’d get money for each autograph, on top of the money they paid her to be part of a special signing event.
How would you feel if I forced you to tediously sit in one spot for six hours and repeatedly sign your name on hundreds of useless and worthless photos of yourself, and also be forced to politely interact with thousands of strangers all day, without getting paid?
You just described Worf like, a dozen times.
You misspelled “freedom fighter”
Can you really be called a cult leader when you’re literally a demigod?
You can be a demigod and not lead a cult. In many ways, that’s what he did.
Kira was awesome.
i am currently watching DS9 for the very first time and I just watched his first sex scene episode. goodness gracious 🤭
i knew my obsessive love for the grumpy goo man was not misplaced 🥰
Hello, Leminal.space user👋👋 that was the first instance I ever joined!
He isn’t fascist. Being strict and by the book isn’t what defines fascism.
No, but there were other signs: https://lemmy.world/comment/24011246
he was a genocidal nazi in sg1(1 episode). and he was in criminal minds,.
Well… you’ve got to love someone and there is no such thing as a perfect person. Or goo-men.
I don’t think you need to be perfect not to be a fascist, but I guess that’s a minority opinion nowadays.
In real life I agree with you! But in DS9 one’s options are limited :(
